Legislature(1997 - 1998)
01/31/1997 03:39 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
JOINT MEETING
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
January 31, 1997
3:39 p.m.
SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Rick Halford, Chairman
Senator Lyda Green, Vice Chair
Senator Bert Sharp
Senator John Torgerson
SENATE MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
Senator Robin Taylor
OTHER SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Jerry Ward
HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative Joe Green
Representative Reggie Joule
Representative Irene Nicholia
HOUSE MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative William K. (Bill) Williams
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
BRIEFING: COMINCO ALASKA INCORPORATED
BRIEFING: NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
JOHN KEY, General Manager
Cominco Alaska Incorporated
Red Dog Mine
P.O. Box 1230
Kotzebue, Alaska 99752
Telephone: (907) 426-2170
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on Cominco Alaska
Incorporated.
DOUG HORSWILL, Vice President
Environment and Corporate Affairs
Cominco Limited
200 Burrard, Suite 500
Vancouver, British Columbia
Canada V6C3L7
Telephone: (604) 682-0611
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on Cominco Limited, the
zinc industry, and other exploration in the
state of Alaska.
CHARLOTTE MacCAY, Senior Administrator
Environmental and Regulatory Affairs
Cominco Alaska Incorporated
Red Dog Mine
1133 West 15th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Telephone: (907) 272-2117
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on the National Park
Service Road Agreement and the permitting
difficulties for the Red Dog Mine.
SARAH SCANLON, Vice President
Corporate Affairs
NANA Regional Corporation, Incorporated
1001 East Benson Boulevard
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
Telephone: (907) 265-4101
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on the benefits of the
Red Dog Mine to the region.
BOB BARBEE, Regional Director
Alaska Region
National Park Service
2525 Gambell Street
Anchorage, Alaska, 99503
Telephone: (907) 257-2690
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on the National Park
Service in Alaska.
JIM BRADY, Superintendent
Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve
P.O. Box 140
Gustavus, Alaska 99826
Telephone: (907) 697-2230
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on the Glacier Bay
National Park and Preserve.
STEVE MARTIN, Superintendent
Denali National Park and Preserve
P.O. Box 9
Denali Park, Alaska 99755
Telephone: (907) 683-2294
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on the Denali National
Park and Preserve.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 97-8, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN RICK HALFORD called the joint meeting of the Senate and
House Resources Standing Committees to order at 3:39 p.m. Senate
members present at the call to order were Halford, Green and
Torgerson. House members present at the call to order were
Representatives Ogan, Green, Nicholia and Joule. Representatives
Hudson and Dyson arrived at 3:42 p.m.
BRIEFING: COMINCO ALASKA INCORPORATED
Number 017
JOHN KEY, General Manager, Cominco Alaska Incorporated, Red Dog
Mine, introduced the following presenters: Sarah Scanlon, Vice
President, Corporate Affairs, NANA Regional Corporation,
Incorporated; Charlotte MacCay, Senior Administrator, Environmental
and Regulatory Affairs, Cominco Alaska Incorporated, Red Dog Mine;
and Doug Horswill, Vice President, Environment and Corporate
Affairs, Cominco Limited.
MR. KEY explained that the briefing would include background
information on Cominco Limited and the zinc industry; a video on
the Red Dog Mine; the building blocks of putting the Red Dog Mine
together, the future of the mine; and lastly, comments on the
ability of Alaska to attract further exploration in mining.
MR. KEY called on Doug Horswill to provide information on Cominco
Limited and the zinc industry.
Number 051
DOUG HORSWILL, Vice President, Environment and Corporate Affairs,
Cominco Limited, referred to a handout titled, "Cominco," and
explained the company is Canadian-based, established in 1906.
Currently, Cominco Limited is the world's largest zinc mining
company, the world's third largest zinc refining company, and the
leader in technology with sales at about $1.6 billion. Mr.
Horswill said, "Red Dog is a jewel in Cominco's crown, as we think
it is in Alaska."
MR. HORSWILL referred to a handout titled, "Product Contribution to
Revenue (1996)," which illustrated that zinc and zinc-related
products amounted to 73 percent of Cominco's total revenue.
MR. HORSWILL referred to a handout titled, "Western World Refined
Zinc Consumption by End-Use (1996)," which illustrated that zinc
was primarily used for sheet and general galvanization, alloys,
brass, bronze, and oxides.
MR. HORSWILL stated zinc generally follows the economy in terms of
growth and demand. He referred to a handout titled, "Western World
Refined Zinc Consumption," which illustrated consumption from 1980
to 1997 at 2.3 percent - the growth of the world's economy. For
example, in developed countries such as the United States and
Japan, consumption was about ten pounds per capita. In China,
consumption was about one pound per capita. In India, consumption
was about one-fourth pound per capita. Therefore, as the world's
population grew richer, the potential for zinc growth would be
enormous.
MR. HORSWILL explained that the past five years have been a
questionable period, however. He referred to a handout titled,
"LME Zinc," which illustrated the price of zinc from 1992 to 1996.
The price of zinc in 1992 was about 60 cents. The price plummeted
to 40 cents after 1992 as a result of the outflow of metals from
the Soviet Union and China, causing the stock prices on the London
Metals Exchange to rise to record levels. However, by 1994 Western
consumption had caught up and passed Western production and imports
from the East, causing the stock prices to fall. Currently, he
stated, the stock prices are moving towards "normal levels," at
which point demand will impact prices again.
MR. HORSWILL explained the consequence was a product of aggregate
profitability. He referred to a handout titled, "Zinc Industry
Profitability," which illustrated the aggregate profitability from
1989 to 1995. The aggregate profitability had been below the cost-line for muc
is confident that the gap will form again in the right direction in
the future.
MR. HORSWILL referred to a handout titled, "Top 10 Western World
Zinc Mines - 1996 Production," which illustrated the top mines for
contained zinc. The Red Dog Mine was ranked number one at 325,000
tons. The number is expected to rise by 1999 to 500,000 tons,
three-quarters of a billion dollars in export revenue for the state
of Alaska every year.
MR. HORSWILL referred to a handout titled, "Alaska Leads the World
in Zinc Reserves," which illustrated the top mines for remaining
reserves. The Red Dog Mine was twice as large as the next mine -
Century.
MR. HORSWILL concluded by stating that - currently - Alaska is the
world's leader in zinc as a result of the partnership between
Cominco Limited, the state of Alaska, and the NANA Regional
Corporation, Incorporated.
Number 184
MR. KEY referred to a handout titled, "Red Dog Beginning," which
illustrated the building blocks of the Red Dog Mine. He explained
the first building block was the NANA Land Agreement. It was an
agreement whereby the NANA Regional Corporation, Incorporated
retained the ownership of the land while Cominco Limited leased the
resources from the land. He also explained that the equipment is
paid for and owned by Cominco Limited. At present, the NANA
Regional Corporation, Incorporated receives a royalty of 4.5
percent of the net smelter return (NSR). And, when the capital is
paid for, the NANA Regional Corporation, Incorporated will receive
25 percent of the revenue, increasing in increments of 5 percent
every 5 years, until it reaches the cap set at 50 percent. Also,
included in the NANA Land Agreement were three committees: an
operation committee, an employment committee, and a subsistence
committee.
MR. KEY explained the second building block was the Alaska
Industrial Development and Export Authority (AIDEA) Road/Port
Agreement approved by the Alaska State Legislature in the 1980s.
The legislature provided $150 million for the development of a road
between the mine and port site, and the shipping and storage
facilities. In addition, the agreement required that Cominco
Limited pay back on a use-basis. Currently, the state of Alaska
receives $12 million a year. In the first 10 years of production,
AIDEA received in excess of $100 million in payments back from its
investment.
MR. KEY called on Charlotte MacCay to address the National Park
Service Road Agreement and the permitting difficulties associated
with the beginning of the Red Dog Mine.
Number 217
CHARLOTTE MacCAY, Senior Administrator, Environmental and
Regulatory Affairs, Cominco Alaska Incorporated, Red Dog Mine,
explained a 50 mile road was needed to get the concentrates from
the mine to the sea. However, the area was surrounded by national
park service lands. Therefore, after weighing the subsistence use
areas, the wildlife habitat areas and the fisheries, the route with
the least impact was through a national park which required
approval from the President of the United States. At present, the
road works well and it is often referred to as a model road by the
United States Park Service in terms of dust control and management.
MS. MacCAY further explained there have been other greater
environmental permitting problems which have caused delays and cost
money. The main reason was because the state of Alaska adopted
most of its regulations straight from other states or from federal
regulations. They were not tailored to meet the unique conditions
in Alaska. She explained the Red Dog Mine was sited from the air
because of its bright orange color due to the metals naturally
bleaching out of the ore body. There was no aquatic life in the
stream yet it was still held to the same criteria as a pristine
stream. She stated, in-order-to deal with these types of issues,
reclassification of the stream and site-specific criteria was
needed. Discussions started over 10 years ago with the Department
of Environmental Conservation (DEC) with active negotiations only
occurring in the past 4 years. It has only been in the last year
and a half that progress has been made. In addition, Cominco
Limited has been trying to renew a discharge permit since 1989 but
it has been delayed due to both state and federal issues.
MS. MacCAY further stated it was very, very difficult for an
operation to plan with such uncertainty. It was an interesting
juxtaposition because the state with the world's greatest zinc
asset was being held up by details.
Number 270
MR. KEY referred to a handout titled, "Commitment to Red Dog," and
explained the initial investment by Cominco Limited to the Red Dog
Mine was $250 million. An additional investment of $35 million was
added to upgrade the metallurgical facilities and $46 million was
added towards environmental improvements. He reiterated, at
present, the commitment made by Cominco Limited has been met to
both the state of Alaska and the NANA Regional Corporation,
Incorporated.
Number 292
MR. KEY showed a short video on the Red Dog Mine.
Number 388
MR. KEY clarified from the video in regards to jobs, that there
were between 150 to 160 construction workers on-site last year.
There will be around 250 construction workers on-site in 1997.
They will not be permanent jobs, but approximately 30 permanent
jobs will be needed to operate the facility. And, Cominco Limited
is committed to placing NANA Regional Corporation, Incorporated
shareholders with these jobs.
MR. KEY called on Sarah Scanlon to address the benefits of the Red
Dog Mine to the region.
Number 401
SARA SCANLON, Vice President, Corporate Affairs, NANA Regional
Corporation, Incorporated, explained there were many benefits in
addition to the monetary payments to the region. She cited about
200 of the 400 jobs went to local folks totaling $13 million per
annum in payroll. Statewide, the payroll totals $22 million per
annum, and about $24 million went to vendors and suppliers
throughout the state.
MS. SCANLON further stated that the NANA Regional Corporation,
Incorporated has enjoyed a partnership concept through local
control. She explained schools were being improved and careers
were being discussed like never before. There was discussion on
planning to place workers from welfare. The Red Dog Mine's alcohol
and drug free policy has positively impacted the region. And, in
addition, the NANA Regional Corporation, Incorporated shared 70
percent of its resource revenues with the other regional
Corporations in accordance with the Alaska Native Claims Settlement
Act.
Number 441
MR. KEY referred to a handout titled, "Returns from Red Dog," which
illustrated the operating profit from 1990 to 1996. Mr. Key
explained that Cominco Limited has "racked up" a total of $152
million in operating debt. A combination of the operating debt and
the capital totaled up to $600 million. However, at present,
performance and the price of zinc are improving thereby improving
the numbers. Mr. Key reiterated the reasons why Cominco Limited
was dedicated to the Red Dog Mine.
MR. KEY referred to a handout titled, "Red Dog Reserves," and
explained there were 52 million tons of reserves in the main body,
76 million tons in the aqqaluk body, and 10 million tons in the
hilltop body. Mr. Key referred to a handout titled, "Red Dog-Aqqaluk Drill Sec
sections.
Number 485
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN stated the third body looked deep. He
wondered whether the company planned to strip-mine the body or use
some other kind of method?
MR. KEY replied it would depend on the delineation of the total
reserve. Currently, it looks like it will be mined underground.
MR. KEY called on Doug Horswill to explain about other exploration
in Alaska and how it was viewed in the world stage.
Number 493
MR. HORSWILL explained that Alaska in general was important to
Cominco Limited, not just the Red Dog Mine. Currently, Cominco
Limited is exploring a gold property called "pebble" and working in
the area around Nome.
Number 510
MR. HORSWILL referred to a handout titled, "U.S. Share of Global
Exploration Expenditures," which illustrated the exploration
expenditures from 1992 to 1996. He explained there has been a
drastic reduction in the share of total exploration dollars coming
into the country, while it was the opposite in Indonesia, Latin
America and the Pacific Basin. There has been a reduction in
exploration expenditures partly because of the perceptions in the
minds of the decision makers. He declared, the geology has not
changed, but there was always a question of politics in the minds
of the decision makers in terms of permits.
MR. HORSWILL further stated it was important to ensure that the
regulatory agencies have sufficient resources to administer the
regulations. It was also important to facilitate the access of
lands while at the same time protect the environment. It was also
important to focus on the infrastructure to help reduce the cost of
working in remote areas. And, in addition, it was also important
to foster positive attitudes through the help of the legislature
and the industry.
Number 555
MR. KEY stated, in regards to infrastructure, it was tough to go
into a remote location and supply all the goods. He cited Peru, an
undeveloped country, had roads and power supplies while Alaska did
not. He suggested that the state evaluate the affordability of
infrastructure against the expected returns. At present, the
potential in Alaska is unbelievable. It is only a matter of being
able to get to the resources.
Number 566
MR. KEY stated, in regards to fostering positive attitudes, mine
development could occur as long as it was governed by good
environmental practices. Cominco Limited did not have a problem
with good environmental practices. It had a problem with the fact
that good environmental practices were not being defined by
scientists or the legislature. They were being defined by the
environmental movement. He relayed to the committee members the
framework of a good environmental practice.
Number 585
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called for a 5 minute recess at 4:25 p.m.
TAPE 97-8, SIDE B
Number 001
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the joint meeting of the Senate and House
Resources Committees back to order at 4:31 p.m.
BRIEFING: NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
Number 004
BOB BARBEE, Regional Director, Alaska Region, National Park
Service, asked the following individuals to join him at the table:
Steve Martin, Superintendent, Denali National Park and Preserve;
and Jim Brady, Superintendent, Glacier Bay National Park and
Preserve.
MR. BARBEE stated last week the National Park Service (NPS) was in
Washington D.C. reminding the congressional delegation that two-thirds of the N
NPS also reminded the congressional delegation that it has been 16
years since the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act
(ANILCA) was passed.
MR. BARBEE further stated, at present, the NPS is looking towards
a vision for the twenty-first century, keeping in mind the tourist
industry in Alaska, and a user-friendly park service. The
following are the three general areas that the NPS is looking
towards: managing the current lands, accommodating the visitors,
and building stronger community alliances. He referred the
committee members to a booklet titled, "Alaska."
Number 130
MR. BARBEE explained there are developmental plans for the
Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve including a road to
McCarthy. There are also plans for trails and a visitor center
near Copper Center. The Kenai Fjords National Park, the Sitka
National Historic Park and the Klondike Gold Rush National Historic
Park are small areas but attract a tremendous amount of visitors.
The Klondike Gold Rush National Historic Park experiences a 12
percent increase in visitation every year. He also explained there
is a developmental plan for a visitor center in Nome.
NUMBER 153
MR. BARBEE further stated the Denali National Park and Preserve and
the Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve are the lynchpins in the
tourist industry. Currently, the Glacier Bay National Park and
Preserve is looking to expand in Bartlett Cove.
Number 178
CHAIRMAN HALFORD referred the committee members to page 2 of the
booklet titled, "Alaska," and read, "the vast majority of park
lands were vulnerable to air pollution, oil spills, wildlife
poaching, archeological looting and 'commercial fishing.'" He
said, "I think the combination of 'commercial fishing,' a renewable
resource activity which is legal, which is positive, and which is
a major historical benefit to the state of Alaska, in that list is
a very serious error in putting together a booklet."
Number 190
MR. BARBEE replied the reason for including commercial fishing was
because of the issues surrounding the Glacier Bay National Park and
Preserve.
MR. BARBEE called on Jim Brady to address the concerns of Glacier
Bay National Park and Preserve.
Number 199
JIM BRADY, Superintendent, Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve,
explained the park is trying to find a way to phase out commercial
fishing in the bay proper. It has been working for the past six
months with individuals, Native groups, conservation groups,
commercial fishing groups, community members and the state. The
park is now waiting for a recommendation from the United States
Secretary of Interior for the next move and for a draft proposal to
continue discussions. He expects a final ruling by the end of
1997.
Number 230
CHAIRMAN HALFORD stated it seemed inconsistent to see a few
commercial fishing vessels being treated as a hazard to the value
of the park. It was the same inconsistency seen through the Denali
National Park and Preserves' proposals to cut off traditional and
smalltime access by Alaskans, and to sell it to out-of-state
corporations.
Number 242
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON stated that he has followed the Glacier
Bay National Park and Preserve for the past 20 years and has never
seen a good reason for a plan to eliminate commercial fishing in
the area. He declared it was more of an arbitrary decision made by
the National Park Service.
Number 254
MR. BRADY explained that, at present, the NPS is trying to meet a
park preservation mission.
Number 265
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated that commercial fishing is an asset to
the lifestyle in the bay area.
Number 272
MR. BRADY replied that, clearly, there is a lot of value to
commercial fishing.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER wondered how a 30,000-ton cruise ship compares
to a 32-foot gillnetter in terms of park value.
MR. BRADY replied the reason for the park is the visitors. The
visitors do not come to the park via commercial fishing vessels,
they come via cruise ships.
Number 280
MR. BARBEE stated he would consider taking the term "commercial
fishing" from the list of other vulnerabilities in future
publications of the booklet.
Number 283
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked Mr. Brady whether there were any
plans to close Dundas Bay to motorized vessel traffic.
MR. BRADY replied, "No."
Number 288
SENATOR JERRY WARD asked Mr. Barbee whether there was a mission
statement.
MR. BARBEE replied, "Yes."
STEVE MARTIN, Superintendent, Denali National Park and Preserve,
stated the NPS has a mission statement for management.
SENATOR WARD wondered whether the issue of a cruise ship versus a
fishing boat would be reflected in a mission statement.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER replied, "Yes."
SENATOR WARD asked for a copy of the mission statement. He was
curious as to how it would be worded.
MR. MARTIN stated wording to accomplish the goals and objectives
were included in a mission statement.
Number 299
SENATOR WARD wondered whether the mission statement was in error.
Number 300
SENATOR JOHN TORGERSON asked whether the mission statement was
suppose to have something to say about customary and traditional
use in regards to the issue of commercial fishing versus cruise
ships.
MR. BRADY replied the issue has not been framed yet.
Number 312
MR. BARBEE explained the fundamental difference was that commercial
fishing harvests a resource while cruise ships did not. Cruise
ships were an avenue for visitors to see the park. He called it a
long-standing issue where a resource harvest has not been part of
the development and evolution of the purpose for a national park.
It was a value issue that needed to be solved with the least impact
on the people effected.
Number 319
SENATOR TORGERSON stated he considered it more of a federal lock up
of land that was traditionally used by Alaskans, not a mission
statement from Washington D.C.
Number 328
SENATOR TORGERSON further stated he was concerned about the in-holdings of priv
owners were guaranteed access to their lands, but they ran into
difficulties when dealing with the park service to maintain their
accesses. Unless, of course, they were rich. The latest
requirement from the park service was an environmental impact
statement for each access. He wondered whether the NPS had given
access to the owners or were the owners and the NPS still at
loggerheads.
Number 333
MR. BARBEE replied he would like to know - personally - about any
unreasonable demands put on an owner. Often times, the NPS did the
environmental work. For example, the NPS just provided the
documentation to allow for a water line onto private property in
the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve.
Number 336
MR. MARTIN explained it depended on the request for access. For
example, in the Gates of the Arctic National Park and Preserve, the
NPS performed the compliance on a request for a 4-wheel trail to
access an allotment. According to regulations, the NPS has to
choose the route with the least environmental impact. He stated
the road to Kantishna required a streamlined permitting process to
get to an in-holding. The request for a privately run railroad in
the Denali National Park and Preserve, however, would be at a
different scale which would probably require private finances. In
general, that was not the case for simple accesses to in-holdings.
Number 360
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Mr. Barbee to explain the language on
page 4 of the booklet which read, "Failure to carry out purchases
in a timely manner could result in further inverse condemnation
actions by claim owners." He wondered whether owners had a
constitutional right to keep their property without having Big
Brother leaning on them with deep pockets to force them out of
business.
Number 366
MR. MARTIN replied the language referred to mining claim
acquisitions. He explained that the term "inverse condemnation"
was the prevention of utilizing property for the purpose for which
it was bought. The Mining in the Parks Act resulted in regulations
that governed how mining took place within the parks. He cited
Kantishna as an example of a difficult situation for miners because
a park was established surrounding mining land.
Number 391
CHAIRMAN HALFORD stated it was the difference between surrendering
before or after a battle.
Number 392
MR. MARTIN stated it was a tough situation that needed to be
reconciled.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN suggested that the NPS leave the miners alone.
Number 396
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered whether a fishing vessel or two would
be a deterrent to a visitor. He thought it would enhance, rather
than detract, the visit by showing how the locals operated. He was
opposed to being told from outsiders what visitors wanted to see.
Number 407
MR. BRADY replied it was a valid observation. In addition, good
science would be needed to help make decisions regarding commercial
fishing vessels in the Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked Mr. Brady what was the highest number of
fishing boats that he had seen in the bay at one time.
MR. BRADY replied, "About 35."
CHAIRMAN HALFORD stated, "We're not talking about the North Line at
Egegik or the South Line at Naknek." If the number was frozen at
35, that would be just enough for the tourists to enjoy.
Number 435
MR. BRADY replied it was a valid point. However, the NPS, at
present, is suggesting that commercial fishing take place outside
of the bay proper. The bay is already very special, requiring a
limited entry. There is a lot of competition for its use. In-order-to limit t
experiences, the NPS needs to phase out commercial fishing in the
bay. The NPS is trying to find a fair way to do it.
Number 438
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated if he was on a cruise ship he would
prefer to see a fishing boat rather than another cruise ship.
MR. BRADY stated the NPS tries to space the cruise ships, but it
was a good point.
Number 441
MR. BARBEE stated that there were going to be areas of disagreement
in regards to developing national parks and preservers, but there
were multiple opportunities.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD stated it was a matter of disagreeing without
being disagreeable.
Number 451
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON wondered how it would be possible to return
the resolution process to the lowest level: the level where the
policies would impact those that lived in the area.
Number 470
MR. BARBEE replied the NPS would like every issue to stay at the
lowest possible level. Keep in mind, however, that the NPS has
constituents at every level - local, state and federal - and on
every side of the issues.
Number 480
MR. MARTIN stated there were examples such as the Golden Zone Mine
on the boundary of the Denali National Park and Preserve where
there was a chance that the south-side entrance to the park could
also be used as an entrance to the mine.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced in all fairness, it was the NPS that
requested to come before the committee.
Number 497
SENATOR WARD stated that the stakeholders were the constituencies.
SENATOR WARD asked for clarification regarding subsistence use in
the national parks.
Number 508
MR. BARBEE replied the preserves in Alaska that were added to the
national park system allowed for traditional and customary use.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked which of the parks were open to subsistence
use.
MR. BARBEE replied all of the preserves with exception to some of
the Arctic parks were open to subsistence use.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER stated that the preserves even allowed sports
hunting. The Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act
allowed for subsistence in areas that were used customarily and
traditionally.
MR. BARBEE stated the majority of the park lands were open to
subsistence use.
Number 520
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked whether it was the intent of Mr. Brady to
eliminate subsistence fishing in the Glacier Bay National Park and
Preserve.
Number 524
MR. BRADY replied he was not sure what the meaning of subsistence
fishing was. The Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve is
excluded from subsistence concerns according to federal law.
SENATOR WARD wondered why the park was excluded even though there
has been subsistence activity and commercial harvest for hundreds
of years.
Number 526
MR. BRADY explained the Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve was
a pre-ANILCA park.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked Mr. Brady whether it was the intent to phase
out subsistence fishing along with commercial fishing.
MR. BRADY replied he could not feature any subsistence fishing
activity other than personal use.
Number 531
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated there were individuals from Hoonah who
were subsistence fishermen.
MR. BRADY stated, in regards to the Natives, there was a proposal
to provide a provision to allow them to continue to subsistence
fish.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked Mr. Brady whether subsistence use was being
defined by residence or race.
MR. BRADY replied it was still being worked on.
Number 541
SENATOR TORGERSON asked Mr. Barbee if the extreme skiing issue has
been resolved in Valdez.
Number 548
MR. BARBEE replied it was an issue for the United States Forest
Service, not the National Park Service.
Number 546
SENATOR TORGERSON stated last year United States Senator Frank
Murkowski introduced a bill to try to change the way the state of
Alaska was treated in terms of access to lands. He asked was there
any discussion on future legislation in regards to access promised
in ANILCA while he was in Washington D.C.
Number 554
MR. BARBEE replied there would probably be amendments made by the
congressional delegation to ANILCA.
MR. BARBEE reiterated that the NPS was concerned about access and
accommodation of visitors to the parks. Right now, there is not
any legislation in regards to access, but there probably will be in
the future.
Number 562
SENATOR TORGERSON stated he knew that there was legislation last
year. He was more curious whether or not Mr. Barbee had heard
about any legislation this year.
SENATOR TORGERSON suggested that the Alaska division of the NPS
testify before Congress in Washington D.C. He was concerned about
people testifying on behalf of Alaska that had never been to the
state before.
MR. BARBEE announced for clarification that the following parks are
open to subsistence use: the Kobuk Valley Park, the new additions
to the Denali National Park and Preserve, the Gates of the Arctic
National Park and Preserve and all national preserves. He also
announced that the following parks are closed to subsistence use:
the Kenai Fjords National Park, the old Denali National Park and
Preserve, the old Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve, ....
TAPE 97-9, SIDE A
Number 003
SENATOR WARD asked Mr. Barbee whether he had a long-term
transportation plan throughout the NPS taking into consideration
Revised Statute 2477.
MR. BARBEE replied every park had a general management plan that
addressed the question of access and transportation. For example,
there were fifty commercial operators in the Gates of the Arctic
National Park and Preserve to access the land.
SENATOR WARD explained he was asking about road right-of-ways in
regards to Revised Statute 2477.
MR. BARBEE replied it was an issue of concern for the NPS, but it
did not have a grand transportation plan.
SENATOR WARD asked whether any promulgated regulations were
stopping the NPS from having a transportation plan.
NUMBER 035
MR. BARBEE replied, "No." He did not know of any regulations that
prohibited the NPS from offering the opportunities to build new
roads.
MR. MARTIN explained it was tied more to park purposes and
opportunities.
SENATOR WARD announced that was why he asked earlier for the
mission statement.
MR. MARTIN stated that the NPS was moving towards developing a plan
for the big picture to help mesh some of the priorities.
Number 061
SENATOR WARD wondered whether there was the possibility of
dovetailing plans of the NPS with mineral deposits, not just
tourist activities. He wondered if a mission statement would allow
for something like that.
MR. BARBEE replied, if mineral extraction was the primary reason
for a road, it probably would not allow it. There were exceptions,
however, and cited the road to the Red Dog Mine as an example.
SENATOR WARD stated that almost all of the roads in Alaska were
built because of mineral extraction. Therefore, it seemed logical
to consider it.
MR. MARTIN cited the Golden Zone Mine road was a state right-of-way
through a park which allowed for recreational opportunities as a
spin off. The mineral development was outside of the park,
however.
Number 096
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked Mr. Martin whether the state right-of-way
road was the original access to the Golden Zone Mine.
MR. MARTIN replied, "Yes."
Number 108
CHAIRMAN HALFORD stated he could see the difference in the
environmental constituency and the developmental constituency in
regards to the right-of-way road to the Golden Zone Mine. But, he
could not see a problem with the environmental constituency in
regards to a few gillneters in the Glacier Bay National Park and
Preserve. He could see a problem with increasing ship traffic,
however, with the current air quality regulations.
Number 116
MR. BARBEE replied the NPS not only has to deal with constituencies
but industry regulations as well.
Number 135
CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked everyone for providing information today.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated maybe it would be possible to
collectively carry these issues to the congressional delegation in
Washington D.C. for some resolution.
MR. MARTIN stated the NPS knows there are going to be some
contentious issues ahead.
Number 153
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated the NPS should be equally concerned
about the issue of Indian country.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN HALFORD adjourned the joint meeting of the Senate and
House Resources Standing Committees at 5:27 p.m.
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